Doing Things the Righteous Way
An Interview with Shawn Heller- National Director
of the Students for Sensible Drug Policy

Shawn Heller
photo- Preston Peet
by Preston Peet-
Special to Drugwar.com
June 20, 2002
P- Hi Shawn. Im watching the tape
of your arrest at the Department of Justice right now.
SH- I still cant feel part of my hand.
I think Im going to go to the doctor tomorrow. I guess you
could say I probably had the harshest situation with the cops.
They had me pressed down onto the ground, kneeling on me as well
as applying pressure points on my wrists and neck for about 20
seconds. Then they put the plastic cuffs on me and carried me
by the cuffs, which made them cinch as tight as they could get.
They left the cuffs on me for 3 hours. We were incarcerated for
about 8 hours total.
P- Let me get a little background. How many
brothers and sisters do you have?
SH- I have one brother, and one sister.
P- Where were you born?
SH- Miami Florida.
P- Youre how old?
SH- 23.
P- Whered you go to HS and college?
SH- I went to the Maritime Academy of Science
and Technology, the M.A.S.T. Academy, on Key Biscayne in Miami,
a public school but its a magnet school. Its a neat
place. We used to go kayaking and windsurfing for PE instead of
playing football. I went to college at George Washington University
in Washington DC, and graduated in 2000.
P- You are still working with the Students
for Sensible Drug Policy right? And you are president, right?
SH- Actually, thats national director.
P- What got you interested in the drug reform
movement?
SH- Ive been more or less for the legalization
of drugs for quite some time, especially after undertaking lots
of research on the subject.
P- That was while you were in the WH?
SH- Towards the end of working at the WH
and over that following Summer. I spent my time researching drug
policy pretty much day and night for a long period.
P- When were you at the WH?
SH- I was at the WH in 1997-98.

P- What took you there, what did you do?
SH- I worked in the Office of Political Affairs
part of the time, and I also worked for WH Advance, the advance
team. Id started doing that back when I was in High School,
when Clinton was coming down there for different events in the
1996 campaign. Then I came to DC and continued to work in Advance
then got the job in the Political Affairs.
P- What did you do in the Office of Political
Affairs?
SH- I did a ton of different things, a lot
of lackey type stuff. I worked for Linda Moore, who was deputy
assistant to the President. Basically by the end of my time there,
I was writing weekly political briefs for the President on over
30 different states. I was also writing trip briefs on about 12
different states, which basically means if he was taking a trip
to a state, we would put together a special brief for that trip,
who the different politicians in that area are, what races are
going on, what are the big topics of the area, basically all the
political stuff he would want to know on a trip.
P- So he would seem knowledgeable.
SH- Right.
P- How old were you when you were doing that?
SH- I was 18 and 19.
P- Whens your birthday?
SH- April 7, 1979.
P- Have you ever had any legal problems with
the police and drugs?
SH- No. The first time I was ever arrested
was on Thursday,
June 6, 2002. at the DOJ. First arrest.
P- I would be proud to put that on my resume
if I were you.
SH- Oh, as am I. I would do it again. The
DEA and the Department of Justice have gone completely out of
control, and we have to stop it.

Heller under arrest in Washington DC, June
6, 2002-
photo Doug McVay
P- Are you worried about SSDP being infiltrated
by the feds, like they did to the protestors for at least one
of the DC protests, where they had people actually in the puppeteers
building in the week before the protests were taking place, taking
pictures and pretending to be protestors themselves. Ive
heard that you were actually followed the morning of the June
6 protest?
SH- Ill tell you exactly what happened.
P- Hold on a sec. My point is, are you worried
about the SSDP becoming, and I know it sounds really conspiratorial,
infiltrated? Like what the feds did to the Students
for a Democratic Society, (SDS) back in the 60s, and Ramparts
Magazine, as well as the news that came out last week that
Reagan,
the FBI, and the CIA had been targeting students and faculty
out in California for years. Its been known, but theyre
just now admitting it after
17 years of federal denials. Are you worried about that kind
of thing at SSDP, and I want to hear about being tailed.
SH- Ill start with the being tailed.
On Thursday, I was the first one to Adam
Eidingers house in DC that morning to get prepared.
After everyone got there, we went to do a practice run in a local
park right by Adams house. When we did, there was a red
Ford Torus with 3 antennas, significantly more antennas than is
typical on such a car sticking out the back, that drove by a couple
of times while we were out there. When we left, it did a U-turn
and followed us. We saw it again when we went a couple miles down
the road on our way to the Department of Justice. There is of
course no guarantee that vehicle was really tailing us, but it
seemed probable that it was. When we arrived to do the demonstration,
the police were already there, in presence, and it didnt
take them long tp get a big group of federal police and a SWAT
team unit there. We spoke to one of the arresting officers while
we were in jail, who said that they were told that morning during
the briefing that there would be three protests during that day,
one of which would be at the Department of Justice. He said they
knew pretty much already what we were going to be doing, which
is why they arrived with the clippers, the chain cutters. How
true that is, whether they really knew we were going to be chaining
ourselves to the door, Im not completely convinced. It seems
to me that at the least they knew we were going to be at the Department
of Justice, and thats what the police officer said. We had
not made that public information. Wed let the media know
by telephone, and people who were involved in the demonstration,
but as far as everyone knew, that was an undisclosed demonstration.
We had only publicly disclosed the location of the 4 oclock
demonstration at the DEA headquarters. In addition, the officers
had gotten an update, saying that at first we were expected by
10AM but that got bumped back to 11AM. That information was probably
from the red Torus, which seemed to be watching our progress.
P- You know that law enforcement nowadays
have those directional mics that they can just point right at
your car and hear every word you are saying. I know I really sound
paranoid.
SH- No, no, I hear you and understand your
concerns. For your first question, about infiltration. SSDP is
a completely non-violent organization. We have lots of activities
that we involve everyone in, but we make sure that everything
we talk about and everything we do and present and organize as
an organization is all stuff that is either legal or is non-violent
civil disobedience. If there are infiltrators in SSDP, and there
very well might be but we havent found any out to date,
thats not going to change what we do. Were very conscious
of that, so that if somebody suggests something that seems illegal
or violent, anything like that, we would immediately step in and
say thats not what our organization is about. If there was
an infiltrator trying to convince us to do that kind of stuff,
that would immediately be squashed as an idea, While we probably
wouldnt come right out and say, youre an infiltrator,
wed make it very clear thats not what our organization
is about.
P- Because that is exactly what happens.
Somebody will come in and make suggestions, say things like non-violence
isnt working, lets ratchet up some violence.
SH- I think all the SSDP members and leaders
across the country know that that sort of stuff is not what were
about.
P- Is that a subject you might bring up at
board meetings? You know, keep in mind were a non-violent
organization but we know the feds dont like us and would
love to put us out of business so watch for people making untoward
suggestions?
SH- Not so much in that we say, watch
out for infiltrators, but more in the sense of we know Rep.
Mark Souder of Illinois very much dislikes us. We know that
Joyce
Nelepka from Drug Free Kids has twisted statements by SSDP
members to insinuate that were a militant organization.
So we make it very clear that we have to very careful about what
we say and how we say it so as not to be misconstrued, let alone
suggest something, or deal with a situation where someone had
suggested something that is off-color and that is not what were
about, so in that context, yes. But we dont say we need
to be worried about infiltrators because we really dont
have anything to worry about. I dont want to put too much
focus on giving them that attention
P- Its almost like giving them power.
We certainly don't want to give the destructive anti-drug grandstanding
by evil and twisted people like Rep. Souder or Joyce Nelepka any
more attention or power than can be helped.
SH- In a sense, yeah. Were going to
do what were going to do. Were going to do the righteous
thing and if we go down for it, well go down doing the right
thing.
P- Right on. How many members are in SSDP
now?
SH- During this Summer were working
on improving our member data base. Right now we only have firm
numbers on our chapters. We have 200 chapters, and our chapters
tend to range from 5 members to hundreds of members, depending
on the chapter.
P- SSDP was founded on what date?
SH- SSDP was founded in Fall-Winter 1998
at Rochester Institute of Technology.
P- That was with you? Are you one of the
original members?
SH- Originally, there was a group of students
at Rochester, who created the Rochester Cannabis Coalition, the
RCC. They had insane problems with the administration there. The
administration wouldnt recognize them as a student group,
gave them all sorts of hard times left and right. It became a
very difficult situation for them. The students went to NORML,
and didnt really get too much assistance from them. I think
NORML didnt have the time nor means at that moment to help.
At a loss for what to do, they contacted DRCNet,
which was able to provide them with some assistance. A lot of
students still actually wound up being expelled.
P- Because of their RCC involvement?
SH- There was a quasi-riot at the end of
the school year because one of the members of RCC was getting
expelled. This was the result of a situation in which he went
to a secret board of trustees meeting to appeal to the trustees,
due to the President was being so unreasonable. When he wandered
into the building where the secret meeting was being held, unbeknownst
to him the security had been instructed to detain him. The situation
turned ugly and violent, and he was accused of assaulting a campus
police officer, when in reality the officer had assaulted him.
There was a big trial on campus outside of which other RCC members
had a big protest set up, where they had a bullhorn going, speaking
to all the students gathering there. They ended up taking over
a building. In the end the student got expelled. As a result of
that expulsion, the student body, not just members of the RCC,
pretty much freaked out. A very large scale disturbance broke
out. It was covered by all the local news. There were tons of
cops there, and tons of students arrested and expelled. After
this situation, Chris Lotlikar, who was there but hadnt
been expelled, found the campus was so unfriendly to him that
he couldnt see continuing to be there. He left RIT and came
down to DC, where he started interning for DRCNet. During this
internship period, he began creating what became known as U-Net,
the University Network, a listserve of kids who were interested
in drug policy around the country. That was sort of the impetus
for SSDP. U-Net is not used anymore, everything has been transferred
to SSDP talk list. Chris helped create U-Net, then got a job with
DRCNet instead of returning to school, becoming their campus coordinator.
Id returned to school that Fall, and after researching drug
policy all that summer, Id realized I had to do something.
This was in 1998.
I had finished all this research, realizing
that the War on Drugs was far worse than Id ever imagined.
I walked into DRCNet, telling them I wanted to intern there. After
starting my internship, one of my very first tasks was to write
a story for DRCNet's weekly online news serive, the Week
Online. I went to my old bosss office, Senator Bob Graham,
and tried to interview them. First over the phone, then they asked
me to come in. I took the opportunity and went down there. It
was funny, because the interview turned into them more interviewing
me. They started grilling me on what I felt at the time were really
tough questions, questions for which I really didnt have
the answers for. At the end of that session, they offered me a
job there. I decided not to take them up on it. They were trying
to get me out of the clutches of the legalization movement. While
I didnt want their job, I also knew that I obviously didnt
know my facts about the Drug War well enough to be all gung ho
about it yet. I told DRCNet that I was really sorry, but I needed
to be more secure in my position, so I left my internship there
at DRCNet.
Chris and I by this time had already become
friends and decided to move in together. During this time I had
a lot more exposure to Drug War information, and went back over
all the stuff Id read the previous Summer. I realized I
was definitely right on about this, that Id just not been
well enough versed in the facts to argue for my position. I went
back to work for DRCNet, doing slightly different stuff than Id
originally anticipated doing, working with the students end of
things. When the students with the RCC went back to school that
Fall of 1998, they decided they wanted to change the direction
and ideas behind the organization a little bit. They knew they
werent going to be officially recognized by the Student
Government, but they knew it was important that they existed on
campus. Michael Eck created the name Students for Sensible Drug
Policy. The idea was that SSDP would take on the War on Drugs
as a whole.
For me, coming into things, never having
been a drug user or even considered using drugs, looking at the
situation from a real policy focus angle, I had always felt that
the War on Drugs was wrong, making no distinction between the
War on Marijuana and the War as a whole. SSDP wasnt a marijuana
focused organization, but it did still deal with marijuana policy.
I felt this was a perfect fit for what I was looking for. I then
started the second chapter of SSDP at GW in DC.
The original members of the GW chapter had
all met each other working on
I-59 medical marijuana campaign here in DC in 1998, volunteering
for that, then we formed SSDP shortly thereafter. Chris and I
looked at the 2 chapters, and the U-Net, and began coming up with
greater ideas for a national organization. Thats when we
started to move to increase SSDP, to spread it and get people
aware of what we were doing, to get them on board. At the same
time, the Higher
Education Act campaign came into existence, because we had
just found out about the law. By October 1999, we met with Governor
Gary Johnson, after he came out for drug legalization, and
he joined our board of advisors. Over that entire previous Summer,
Chris and I, and a guy named Peter Nelson, who was a campus leader
in Colorado and come out to DC to help us put together our first
conference, which we held in November of 1999. We had between
200 and 250 attend. we went into the conference with 5 chapters,
and came out with 15. The conference was a huge success. We got
a grant from DPF to help put it together, and we also got about
$20,000 in funding and in-kind donations from GW to get the conference
to happen. I worked very hard in the GW bureaucratic quagmire
to get it done. GW is an interesting place. You can get them to
support you on different things, it just takes a lot of effort.
Ive been national director since November
2000. The board of directors elected me, and SSDP national Congress
confirmed me. The Congress is made up of all chapters, each chapter
getting one vote in the Congress.
P- Did your political background working
in the WH help you deal with putting together SSDP, and is it
helping you now?
SH- It definitely helped me, what I learned
while at the WH, in terms of being able to bring that up to people
as an experience Ive had. It definitely sheds a different
light for people, especially people who have a one or single dimensional
view of who or what should be a drug policy reformer. I think
that people like myself, who have a slightly different background,
and David
Borden of DRCNet, who has yet another different background,
helps give the idea that this isnt just a movement of one
particular type of person, its made up of all kinds of different
people from all kinds of different backgrounds.
P- Its not just people with pierced
faces, or hairy stoner dropouts?
SH- Right, not just people with pierced faces.
Its like the people who focus on the Club Drug issues or
Harm Reduction are not only from the Club Drug community.
P- How do your parents feel about what you
are doing now?
SH- Well, my parents are definitely supportive
of what Im doing. Prior to the arrest at DOJ, my Dad told
me hed be willing to get arrested with me, but after the
arrest he said he was just saying that to be supportive of me.
My brother, sister, and parents were all big influences on me
and my life. My brother is 11 years older than me, and my sister
is 8 years older. Both of them sort of acted like parents in some
ways. My brother is liberal in some ways but ultimately hes
a very straight edged, straight laced, regular American dude who
is also conservative on a lot of things. My sister on the other
hand is very free spirited. She used to go to Grateful Dead shows
all the time. They are very different, so I had very different
exposure to different kinds of people, at least within my own
family. My parents are both from the Bronx, then moved to Long
Island, New Jersey, then Miami. The typical migration. Neither
of them went to college. My Dad is a self-made business man. My
Mom was a housewife for years, until our financial times got tough,
so she studied and took an exam to become a stock broker. Shes
now been a stock broker for over ten years, and is the vice-President
of her small firm. Im proud of my parents. I think theyre
awesome people.
P- So you obviously like and get along with
your parents.
SH- Oh yeah. My mom and I were talking about
my grandmothers birthday coming up. My mom has this idea
that each family member will give her a different charm to go
on a charm bracelet. My mom suggested, Why dont you
get your grandmother a little marijuana leaf?
P-What a great idea. Have grandmother walking
around with a little pot leaf dangling from her wrist. Would she
even know what it was?
SH- Yes. My grandmother has told me shes
been anti-prohibition since the 30s and 40s.
P- Right on. Too bad shes had to see
it continue for so long. How long were you under arrest in DC?
SH- About 8 hours. I was one of the first
released, of the group arrested.
P- What time did you go in?
SH- We went in at 11AM, and got out at 7PM,
and others around 8:45PM. Half of us got out at one time, then
the other half later. Really, the worst part about the jail, number
one, DC jail is just so poorly run. You think the DMV is run badly?
DC jail is run so poorly. Beyond the fact that people are treated
subhuman, and the guards wont acknowledge you, they simply
had no clue what was going on. If we wanted to ask a question,
wed be told they werent the ones to ask, but the one
we did need to ask wouldnt be around. When we first went
in, they started finger printing us while watching tv and joking
around with their fellow officers, paying no attention to what
they were doing. When we were at the federal precinct, where they
first took us, they finger printed us and made out this whole
form before realizing they had filled out the wrong form. We were
like, havent you guys arrested somebody before?
P- You know that was probably just the run
around, to make it as much of a hassle for you guys as possible.
SH- Everybody who was in jail with us in
the mens section, except one guy, was an African-American
male. At least 10 were in for basically, as far as Im concerned,
driving while black. All these BS things, like one guy driving
in DC with a Maryland temporary tag, which is supposedly illegal,
so they put him in jail for that. One guy was driving with a learners
permit without someone else in the car and he was taken to jail
for that. I mean, these are things that, in my experience, white
middle class people dont go to jail for.
P- Yeah, Ive been caught driving on
a suspended drivers license before, and I didnt get
taken to jail, in Florida no less, and thats not a good
place to get caught out by the police either. Do you have to go
back to court?
SH- No, we were charged with incommoding,
given a $50 fine and time served. From what I can tell, its
sort of like loitering.
P- What other organizations are you involved
with?
SH- The only other organization I have official
ties with besides SSDP at the moment is DanceSafe,
where I sit on the national board of directors. I am not opposed
to the idea of being in other organizations, theres just
a limit to how many I can join.
P- Or pay dues to.
SH- That true. Id like to be able to
give to everyone, but thats not possible.
P- Any thoughts about going into politics?
SH- I used to be convinced when I was younger
that I was going to be President. Thats what it says in
my yearbook, that Im going to be President by 2024.
P- Youre still young, youve got
plenty of time to do it.
SH- Whether I can do it or not, my focus
has certainly changed. Right now, what makes me feel most fulfilled
and happy as a person is doing something in which I feel like
Im helping people. Thats something I wasnt getting
while working in the WH. I felt like I was just turning the wheels
of the machine, and to what ends I wasnt sure. Now I know
the work Im doing, at least my intention, is to help people.
That makes me feel totally good. Whether that lands me in public
office or not isnt so important.
P- So youre enjoying what youre
doing?
SH- Yes, very much so. I feel like so much
has changed in just the time since I started as a Drug War reformer.
When I got into the movement, there wasnt this national
student group around that was trying to end the Drug War. This
was something I thought should happen, but I didnt know
who else thought or felt this way. Back then, whenever I would
bring up drug legalization, Id get yeah man, puff,
puff but now thats not what I get from most people.
P- No? What do you get from most people?
SH- Now when I say the War on Drugs has failed,
I get a real response, either definitely, or oh
I dont know, but its no longer the joke that
people seemed to think it was. Its worth discussing one
way or the other. Thats a big shift.
P- This is true, now that you mention it.
I too get responses of a serious, somewhat thoughtful nature for
the most part. Anything else youve been doing?
SH- Ive written a chapter on the Drug
War for a communications text book that will be published in the
next year, that will wind up either as a text book or reader in
communications classes all across the country. It doesnt
have a title yet. Its from a guy named Thomas Steinfatt
whos head of communications at University of Miami. I spoke
at a conference he had about nine months to a year ago. He was
really into the things I was saying, so he asked me to contribute
to the book. I wrote about the ridiculousness of the Drug War,
the absurdities.
I talk about how GHB is in your body, yet
its a Schedule 1 Drug. I talk about the National
Institute for Drug Abuse's, (NIDA), Marijuana
Facts for Teens and Marijuana
Facts for Parents use things that arent exactly untrue,
but are specifically geared towards making parents believe every
kid is smoking pot, and the kids that no one is smoking pot. I
talk about one of the things Ive noticed, that when someone
realizes the War on Drugs has failed, they tend not to change
their opinion back. It not like Ive ever met someone who
says they think the War on Drugs should be ended, but comes back
a couple months later saying something like If we only had
a few thousand more police officers on the street, we could really
end the War on Drugs. That doesnt ever happen.
When NIDA's information is not deliberately
misleading, it is often inaccurate. In fact, inaccuracy permeates
government information, even when no ideological agenda seems
to be at stake. For example, a publication from NIDA claimed that
MDMA may stimulate the release of neurotransmitters similar to
serotonin from the brains neurons, producing a high that
lasts anywhere from several minutes to an hour. You and I both
know that MDMA highs can last far more than one hour. Who knows
what reason they had for saying that, but its inexcusable.
On the DEA website, they have these graphs
showing the Drug War budget, and DEA
budget, and as the DEA budget goes up, the prison population
goes up, first time drug use goes up, by very similar percentages
which is about 20 fold. Theres no thought among them to
the possibility that they are responsible for increased incarceration
and first time drug use.
P- Im looking at the DEAs appalling
website right now. The very first thing that pops up is Marijuana-
The Facts, about how drug legalization advocates are
portraying marijuana as a harmless drug that even has medicinal
value. They allege that more than people can become dependent
on marijuana, and that more than 200,000 Americans entered drug
treatment for marijuana abuse in the latest studies
without saying what years those studies might cover. What do you
think of that number?
SH- It seems to be very vague as to where
and when this number comes from. So many people go into treatment
because they have to, because of either their work or being arrested.
I dont know if those numbers include those people
P- Im sure they do.
SH-
but it would be interesting to
see how many went in voluntarily for marijuana treatment as opposed
to being forced into treatment.
P- They also say here that scientific research
has concluded that smoking marijuana is not recommended for the
treatment of any disease or condition. What do you say to that?
SH- I say thats hogwash. Theres
been the Shafer
report, the Institute
for Medicine report, countless
studies that have been done in and out of the government,
plenty of doctors opinions, and patients testimonies
that say marijuana
is helpful in treating different conditions from cancer, to
Crones condition, to AIDS. It so sick to me that the government
is trying to tell people what medicine they should be taking,
what is appropriate. Theyve had no medical training, they
know nothing about the real effects of these drugs, and they dont
suffer from these conditions. So how can they tell people who
are suffering what is and what isnt helping them? Its
just like with my insurance carrier. I got prescribed a drug for
my stomach acid. I went to get it filled only to be told at the
pharmacy that my insurance company had to approve the prescription.
This was for a nothing drug, so I was very surprised. The insurance
company told me when I called that my doctor had to call them
and explain why I needed the drug. Im asked him, are
you a doctor? Youre just some guy on the other end of the
phone. How are you going to know better than my doctor what I
need? I know nothing about alternatives, this is what my doctor
told me I should take.
P- What was their response?
SH- They said it was on the list of drugs
that you should be substituting something else for.
P- WHAT??!!
SH- I said that my doctor had already prescribed
something. This was Care First PPO, supposedly the best health
provider Blue Cross, Blue Shield has. PPOs are supposed to be
better than HMOs. I asked, if my doctor had written a prescription
for Viagra, would they have needed to speak to my doctor then?
They said no, thats not on the list, we would have filled
that. Does that make sense? I dont have a prescription for
Viagra. Theyd have filled that without comment, but not
my stomach acid medicine. Maybe I should get one.
P- Heres another one from the DEA website.
High
Court upholds marijuana as a dangerous drug. This judge in
Washington DC ruled against High
Times magazine and
Jon Gettman, saying marijuana will remain in Schedule 1 of
the Controlled
Substances Act. The DEA press
release bluntly states that marijuana has a high potential for
abuse, and that theres no safe or effective medical
uses for it. Although the ruling came down on May 24, the DEA
issued this crowing press release on June 6, coincidentally the
same day as the nationwide protests calling for an end to the
US War on medical marijuana and users thereof. What do you have
to say in response to this, both the ruling and the timing of
the press release?
SH- Let me answer this question in the broad
sense. Drug laws as a whole are not only un-American, they violate
the essence of the Constitution, whether marijuana should be Schedule
1 or not. Marijuana certainly shouldnt be Schedule 1, but
the idea that Schedule 1 even exists, I mean, that the Department
of Justice is determining what legal status is for possessing
a chemical either in your body or on your person, this is just
a crazy idea. This is what originally got me upset about the War
on Drugs, one of the things that made it seem ridiculous. As our
friends at Alchemind
talk about, we have something called cognitive liberty. Richard
Glen Boire runs Alchemind, a non-profit group that basically is
working for what they call cognitive liberty. Their idea is that
we have freedom of thought, that we have the freedom to alter
our thoughts by whichever way we choose. One of their thoughts
on why drugs are illegal is basically that thoughts people have
while under the influence of illicit substances are not exactly
conducive with corporate America, and spending our time going
to K-Mart or the Sports Authority and buying stuff. I feel strongly
that when it comes down to it people have the right to consume
substances they choose. Its our own body, our own mind,
were the one that has to deal with the ramifications.
Now if you do something that is violent,
that hurts somebody else while you are intoxicated, thats
the same thing as if you did it while not intoxicated, and should
suffer the penalties regardless. To get to the point here, thats
always been a strong feeling of mine. When I then look at how
this been so used and manipulated to become what I call the third
wave of social control and others do as well, you know, slavery,
segregation, and now the War on Drugs, its really asinine.
So what I have to say about the DEA, and the courts decision
to keep marijuana a Schedule 1 substance with no medical benefits
is its a complete lie. Its a ridiculous thought in
its essence to assume there are no medical benefits when doctors
all around the country and patients all around the country are
saying there is.
P- Heres yet another gem. DEA Director
Asa Hutchinson said that accurate drug scheduling is important.
Drugs sold lawfully in the United States are the safest
in the world. This is because our nation through our laws insists
on careful deliberation before allowing drugs to be sold as medicine.
To date marijuana does not meet the scientific requirements.
SH- There are so many drugs sitting in the
pharmacy next door to me here to could kill me, and marijuana
has never killed anyone. These drugs range from Viagra, which
is in my mind mostly a recreational drug and one that can give
you a heart attack, to morphine and morphine derivatives, and
Oxycontin. Marijuana is a plant. The idea of making a plant illegal
is so absurd. If were going to make any plant illegal, why
not make it Poison Ivy? I was at a festival this weekend, the
Smile fest in North Carolina, and this poor girl had to leave
early because shed gone into the woods to pee and wiped
herself with poison ivy, so its on my mind.
P- Thats way too horrible. Im
going to have that image in my mind for the next week at least.
SH- Heres an example of the hypocrisy
behind the whole War on Drugs. I went to this festival recently,
the Smile Fest.
There were about 8,000 people there. Near Ashville, western NC.
It was pretty much an open air drug market. Im sure there
were undercover cops around, and a uniformed police presence,
but I saw nobody get arrested for drugs, even with such large
amounts of sales and drugs going on. This was all happening out
in the open at a festival.
P- Did you see any fights or violence?
SH- Nope, neither. Meanwhile, in inner cities
across the country street sweeps are going on where one doesnt
see obvious open air drug use, but still the excuse is the cops
know those people have drugs, so theyll look to see if they
can find those drugs. Not that they should be going and increasing
their festival raids. This in fact is exactly what they did down
at the University of Viginia, when people made similar complaints
about what was happening on the campus there, cops started going
on campus and arresting white students there. In other words,
boosting up the War rather than stopping arresting the black students.
At this festival, other than for a handful I saw, everyone pretty
much was white. I go out and see this, how that can work, that
people can use drugs and not be problems and not have any situations,
and at the same time the cops go and find situations that they
dont need to.
Another thing I want to mention is that
last Fall at Hookaville
in Ohio, we did a joint event with MAPS
and DanceSafe, a bad trip or emergency tent. Normally at these
festivals when people have a bad trip, they get strapped down
and sent to a hospital where they get their stomach pumped. Here
we had a last line before that step, a much more human way of
dealing with a bad trip, of doing things in general. The worst
thing to do to someone on a bad trip is strap them down and throw
them into the back of an ambulance with sirens screaming for a
trip to the hospital.
P- Have you ever traveled outside of the
United States?
SH- I lived in Holland for 6 months, in the
Winter and Spring of 2000. While living there I got a real perspective
that policies other than US policy can work. So many people say
it cant or wont work here, and I say thats horse
crap. Because when have we tried anything else? In Holland its
very civilized. Everything is much more friendly. When the police
were out and about there, I felt they were my friends, people
that I could go to if I needed help. I didnt feel they were
there to intimidate anyone. It seems as though they like to solve
a situation before resorting to violence.
P- Are you feeling positive about the growth
of the Drug War reform movement and on the obverse, does the increase
in federal volume about the need to really, really crack down
on drugs, trying to tie their old War with their new War on Terror,
concern you? It seems theyre getting almost frantic in their
repeated bleating about how drugs and marijuana are dangerous,
and terror-connected. Both sides seem to be growing.
SH- I definitely feel that little steps are
important. Achieving small victories here and there are definitely
helpful, and spur growth of the movement. I think the size, the
type, the amount of things we do as a movement, as the movement
increases, are perhaps the most important things. I think that
in the long term we really need to end the War on Drugs as a whole,
and the little steps are important.
The only way were going to end the
War on Drugs is for our movement to increase, for the things that
we do to garner increased attention and notoriety, increased publicity,
and increased awareness so that the discussions reach the point
where they are actually happening versus being laughed at. We
want to take it to the next step where most everyone is saying
no, this is wrong and it needs to end. Getting it to where people
are not going to support other people because they are tough on
drugs. When the students set up political action committees, when
that continues to happen and politicians start to loose elections
because theyre too tough on drugs, when our movement has
grown so much that we are on every college campus and tons of
high schools, and all the young people and their parents are talking
about this issue, thats when were going to see the
really big, monumental changes. Ultimately, that is the more important
thing. I cant be anything but optimistic after doing this
for three and a half years and seeing this discussion, first undertaken
sitting out on a porch just talking, turn into 200 hundred chapters
of the SSDP so far. Seeing us go from just trying to get some
media coverage, then having that media coverage turn into a CBS
news story within our first year of being an organization, when
we met with Gov. Gary Johnson, to now being featured in Rolling
Stone 4 times, a 5th coming up this Fall. Seeing these articles
and appearances upping the respectability of everything makes
me extremely optimistic about our future.
Now, am I optimistic about the short term
future? I mean, its looking very grim from what the federal
government is looking like they want to try to do, what they actually
are doing and saying about drugs. In a sense I think that is a
sign of desperation. People are beginning to think the government
has better things to worry about than drugs after September 11,
so the government is trying to link the two.
P- In my opinion, one step towards ending
the war would be for people to come out of the closet like that
couple, Jeff
Jarvis and Tracy Johnson, did in Oregon, the ad saying Hi,
were your good neighbors, and we smoke pot. Do you
see a positive side to coming out and saying yes, I am a pot smoker
and still a hard working, tax paying member of society who loves
my family and they love me?
SH- I think that coming out of the closet
for certain people can be very effective, and I think its
very important in letting people know that not all drug users
are crazy criminals, they are often simply your neighbors that
you wave to on your way to work. Right now, the political climate
is such that people in DC and across the country use drug use
to completely discredit people, to completely take away their
forum. They say that what drug users have to say doesnt
matter precisely because they are drug users. In my case, with
SSDP, its much more important that I take my personal background
completely out of the picture, whether I use drugs or I dont.
Prohibitionists will use whatever they can to allege that reformers
are only in the movement to increase access to drugs. You and
I both know thats utter horse manure.
P- Yeah, especially since illegal drugs are
widely available as it is now.
SH- Some people take that seriously though.
I think that as an organization and as an individual, right now
we want to be able to appeal to a broad base of people. We welcome
drug users into our organization, we welcome non-drug users too.
As a whole, being representative of this big constituency thats
made up of users and non-users alike, if I were to talk about
my own personal choices when it comes to drugs I could possibly
take the emphasis away from one side of my constituency and have
it more focused on the other side, making neither side very effective
at being able to disseminate our message.
P- Ok, thanks for speaking with me Shawn.
SH- No, thank you. Anytime.